to fire or not to fire

Discussion in 'Drexel Dragons' started by warpig, Nov 28, 2015.

  1. warpig

    warpig Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,979
    Likes Received:
    4
    believe it or not...i don't think it's cut and dry that bruiser should be gone within the next 24 hours. most of those reasons were put out very well by metsox on the blog.

    (by the way...as much as i'd like to think anything i write on here has some kind of influence on our athletic department...they probably just read it and laugh if they read it at all)

    if i was ad...i would fire bruiser today...but it's probably not the most logical reason. i'm concerned he would be given the benefit of the doubt for anything resembling salvation of this season. he's already getting the benefit of the doubt with lee's transfer. dr. zilmer could consider a .500 finish from here on out as "salvation". our basketball program will never reach a lower point than where it is now. if he doesn't go now...he probably never will until he decides to leave on his own.

    speaking of leaving on his own...and i've made this point in the past too...doesn't somebody reach a point where they realize they're just not very good at their job? i guess if i was getting hundreds of thousands of dollars to be bad at my job i'd try to hide it for as long as possible too. bruiser has been described as "classy" yet is more than willing to throw his players under the bus to save his own ass. somebody with real class recognizes how much they're setting so many people back and finds something else to do.
    #1
  2. bmf25

    bmf25 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,020
    Likes Received:
    2
    Zilmer must be replaced, the next athletic director should clean house.

    Conference Affiliation: F
    TV Deal: F
    Facilities: F
    Ticket Sales: F
    #2
  3. drexelJay

    drexelJay Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    15
    I was also thinking that he should resign - but then I realized that nobody will ever give him a 500k/year job ever again... So that will never happen.

    We are stuck with Bruiser as long as we have Zillmer.. That much is very clear. Not sure why I even write on the zone anymore bc I just keep saying the same thing over and over..: it must be annoying... And I can't even contribute to on-court discussions bc I can't even bring myself to watch games anymore. It is a sad state of affairs at DU Athletics. Fire EVERYBODY!
    #3
  4. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    He is not going anywhere until he decides to, which could be awhile. The only exception is if we magically get a new AD. I dont know how anyone paying attention can deem recent results as acceptable, other than we all know there is zero pressure to win and everyone is ok with the status quo. I get it. No real history of success and no real donors who demand success. But we have been heading in the wrong direction for a few years now. I obviously think he needs to go and Let Connors do what he wants for the remainder of the year. Obviously anyone who fills Bru's position from within is from his mold, but even with that you never know just how different they would do things if they were in charge. In this case Connors has been the guy for developing our bigs, which should be a strength right now and is not. I say let him prove himself because I think he would utilize the big much more than we are under Bru. Regardless, it is hard to believe very much would change with anyone on the staff taking over. So does it make sense? Absolutely. Will it make any difference? Probably not.
    #4
  5. drexelJay

    drexelJay Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    15
    No point firing him mid-season... Let the current staff play out this disaster and let their be no doubt... Tell Bruiser that the only way he keeps his job is a CAA championship this year and see if he can pull off a Major League style "only one thing left to do" speech..
    #5
  6. ferkel

    ferkel Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2003
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    I understand why you guys are cynical, but I really think this is the year Bruiser gets fired. Of course, you have to consider who you can get to replace him, considering our facilities, and our status being the sixth team in a five team city.
    #6
  7. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    That is part of the problem. A few years ago we had an opportunity to rise up and chose not to so we are back to square one. The mentality at this point of "we cant do any better" needs to stop. We are at a low point, we can only go up.
    #7
  8. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    What is Bru's contract status? Isn't he up next year?
    #8
  9. warpig

    warpig Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,979
    Likes Received:
    4
    i think this is the #1 reason why the wheels have completely fallen off. we haven't been able to recruit or develop a big man aside from elegar and givens. even elegar took a step back his senior season when our guards never passed him the ball. we've tried to run offense like two guys are in the penalty box in a 5-3 situation like you'd see in hockey ever since.

    the big men we have right now shouldn't be as bad as they are. i'm like drexeljay in that i'm not watching anywhere near the amount of games as i used to...but i've seen enough of rodney williams to know he can be a good player. bah and abif have the size to at least be good rebounders and defenders. their biggest problem seems to be fouling. i lost count of how many times they just ran into a guard on the perimeter (of all places for a big man to foul???) for absolutely no reason during the unc-asheville game.
    #9
  10. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    Bru has never been able to develop big men. Even Elegar regressed. How do you take 80 less shots in your senior year vs. your junior when you are a .560 shooter without another scorer in sight? Bru should have told THAT team "Just get Frank the damn rock."

    I would take a 60/40 split guards to forwards but the percentage of first shots being taken by our big men is inexcusable.

    Rodney is a good player. Abif is the perfect complementary player for him. Bah can fill some minutes if need be.

    In my eyes, Lee was an anomaly. When a good player comes to Drexel, they stay relatively consistently good. Okay players don't develop here. What you see in a player's freshman or sophomore season is what you will most likely see from them during their junior and senior years. That fact alone will keep some players away.
    #10
  11. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    I agree warpig. When we were having success we had good big men and that has been a clear struggle recently. But I am not fully convinced it is on Conners for developing them. It is hard to develop them much if they are not getting touches in the game. There is nothing like actual experience. Since we dont ask anything of the bigs in the game I think it is hard for them to develop properly. With Conners in charge I feel like we would actually feed our bigs the ball and it would show us where we really are. Of course I could be totally wrong and maybe we just are not getting better. But I assume we practice how we play, so I just do not see how they can develop when we dont attack the basket or feed them the ball in the post.
    #11
  12. Dragon for life

    Dragon for life Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    3
    Dear Dragon fans,

    It pains me to say this.... but it is time for Bruiser to leave. I would say it will happen before the new years before the CAA conference games or it will happen at the end of the season. Enough is Enough it is time to clean house except for Bobby who actually has been doing a great job with recruiting. I am still rooting for a Drexel win every game but... it is time. I seen all of the games and the players have given up they need morale and Bruiser yelling doesn't help.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
    #12
  13. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    Foreshadowing: Check out my post this week at Dragonsspeak.BlogSpot.com

    Also, saying that the players are "afraid" to the media might be accurate but its unnecessary. They're not afraid of winning or losing. They're afraid of their coach. I cant help but feel that the attitude is "do just enough to keep myself out of the doghouse and from being benched" instead of "take chances to win."
    #13
    Dragon for life likes this.
  14. Dragon for life

    Dragon for life Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    3
    I am still optimistic about the newish players ( Overton, Fields Allen, Rodney, Sammy). UNCW and Towson were laughing stocks and then they fired their coach and are finally back on track. Losing back to back years to a DII/DIII teams should be grounds to be fired no matter who is healthy/not healthy.
    #14
  15. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    Big differences though. UNCW has history so it was only a matter of when they would be back. Towson is similar to us, however they actually invested in their programs to get better, new arena, various other upgrades, and a dedication to getting the right coach. Drexel has not invested into improving anything and does not have a desire to win. So while others have done it, I do not know where you see similarities here at Drexel.
    #15
  16. Dragon for life

    Dragon for life Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    3
    We are aquiring decent/good players and Philly the city. These two factors could entice an up and coming coach or an to come here.A new style of coaching can change the program around.
    #16
  17. relaxing

    relaxing Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Likes Received:
    19
    UNCW doesn't have that much more history than us. They did better than us in conference play during the Wainwright-Brownell years, but their NCAA tournament numbers equal ours.
    #17
  18. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    But you are ignoring way too much. Nobody wants to coach in the crap facilities that we have (even with the "upgrades"). You think our AD has vision for this program that could even hire the right up and coming coach? You are assuming we want change or to turn the program around. They are not interested in that because there is nothing wrong with what we have now, in their eyes. It has been that way for well over a decade, do not understand why you think now is any different.
    #18
  19. relaxing

    relaxing Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Likes Received:
    19
    No matter what, it's pretty clear that extending Bruiser was a mistake and now we're paying the price for rewarding mediocre performance.
    #19
  20. DrachenFire

    DrachenFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    34
    I've tried to take some time to gather my thoughts so I could relay them as succinctly as possible. It didn't work as I spent most of my lunch hour putting 600 words to digital print and wasn't really close to finishing. To avoid putting you all through that, here it is super condensed:

    Bru is just a symptom of the overall program's cancer that is apathy. Firing him (and this really HAS to be it at the end of the year) will alleviate the symptoms for a bit, but there's no doubt in my mind that it won't cure the disease.

    edit - Neither will getting rid of Zillmer as well
    #20
  21. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    I agree there is a systemic problem, but I somewhat disagree that bringing in an AD that actually cares about athletics wouldnt send the ship in the right direction. I think a good AD can jump start a program whether basketball or football etc. From there comes everything else including the head coach. I think we all agree just getting rid of Bruiser will not really fix anything.
    #21
  22. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    There IS a systemic problem. The thing that bothers me though is Drexel went from being a good team in an up and coming conference to a position where they could have been the big kid on the block. I have no doubt that we have had some talented teams on the floor. Fouch, Lee, and Massenat, for example are three of the best players to put on a Drexel uniform. Their bigs were roll players: guys who walked from position to position on the floor setting half-energy occasionally moving screens to try and create shots for the guards and score the overwhelming majority of their points off of second chances that they did not dump back out to the guards.

    My point, ultimately, is the talent pool has been deep. I wonder what a Bobby Hurley or Shaka Smart could have done with a trio like that specifically. They got guys in the program who could have won, including one who has been rather successful at a top notch D1 program. The preparation was not there, and that is on the coach. The execution is one thing all together, but when other teams prepare to play your game better than you prepare to play theirs you are not going to win games.

    Zilmer is the asshole absent parent who has an asshole kid that he lets run wild. One does not excuse the other and both have to go. I just feel like Drexel had the momentum to get the guys in the door, the bigger problem has been what has gone on while the team is on the court. It's really a chicken or egg debate, and I say its time to make some omelettes with a side of spicy wings.
    #22
  23. relaxing

    relaxing Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Likes Received:
    19
    It's tragic, really, how the program failed to capitalize on the opportunities that were essentially laid on our doorstep.
    #23
  24. relaxing

    relaxing Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Likes Received:
    19
    Remember when we argued that firing Bruiser was a mistake, because things could always get worse? Oh man, those were the days.
    #24
  25. drexelJay

    drexelJay Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    15
    I don't want a pat on the back, a medal, a trophy or even a cookie... But I have been saying this for a decade. Bruiser won a lot of games here but was TERRIBLE in big games. He never improved as a coach or made himself accoubtable for his mistakes. The time to go was years ago. This isn't the time to go - this is the fallout of refusing to accept what was so painfully and obviously clear to anybody not wearing blue and gold colored glasses.

    For that mistake, Zillmer is the most accountable. Bruiser is next. And I would let the new AD hire/fire anybody who is left. To do it midseason is pointless but it has to happen the day the season ends.
    #25
  26. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    I think most of us know that ultimately you were right a long long time ago, it just took others longer to join that train. Question for you though, you dont think letting one of his assistants take over and see what they can do in the remainder of the season, one that is already lost? Even though they are feel from the Bruiser branch I think it is worth giving one of them a chance and see if they truly are any different or can make an impact come conference play. With as much as they practice, supposedly, I really dont think dding new plays and style would be that difficult. Maybe I am alone here but I do not really see any downsides to doing it midseason in this case.
    #26
  27. warpig

    warpig Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,979
    Likes Received:
    4
    something else nobody understood over all these years is nobody wanted this to be the outcome. at least i didn't. i said on my facebook page that we were starting out this season with a clean slate. metsox and his immortal optimism even after the san diego game had me thinking maybe we could have a good season.

    another reason i hope bruiser goes this season...or even now as long as it means he goes sometime soon...is i want to have good memories of what he accomplished. i get what jb used to always say about where the program was before bruiser came. i'd imagine it was somewhere close to where it is now. when you can't beat anybody...you miss the days of beating the philly schools, upsetting st. joe's, and sitting behind the basket at msg for the preseason nit. there were so many great memories.

    i actually think the caa is at a better place right now than i thought it would be. you guys are closer to it than i am so let me know if you disagree. that means it's a good time to go a different direction with coach and ad. when i heard about schools like elon and college of charleston...i was convinced we missed the boat on getting in a respectable conference. i don't know that the caa will ever get back to where it was with vcu, odu, and gmu...but it's on the right track especially as schools like uncw and hofstra seem to be going in the right direction. it would be really unfortunate if we couldn't even stay on this bandwagon.
    #27
  28. warpig

    warpig Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,979
    Likes Received:
    4
    i always took this stuff personal...probably more personal than i should have...because i looked at keeping bruiser around as a reflection of the overall "drexel shaft" attitude. why make any effort to succeed when you can just make up excuses for why you failed? i don't want any part of that attitude especially with my alma mater...which i should be proud of. i know very little about the current president or his administration...but i hope he's doing more to change the culture than just building bigger and nicer buildings with the goal of making more and more money. every other university in the country is doing that.
    #28
  29. DrachenFire

    DrachenFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    34
    Here's my problem with that line of thinking, who is going to hire the new AD? Zillmer is now operating under his second president. Has Fry given you any reason to believe that athletics is seen in a different way than when Taki was running the show? How much has the BOT changed over the years since they ultimately chose the president? It is systemic and it goes way beyond Zillmer and is deep rooted from the time we moved up to D1:

    That quote was in response to the disbanding of the football team and explaining its poor support. Tell me that view still doesn't permeate the upper reaches of the University's administration. Students won't support things because they are too busy, and as a result they do the opposite - watch (and wait patiently for good things to just happen and fall in their lap, like a large check for a DAC replacement) rather than do. Until that viewpoint changes, sure, replacing Bru and Zillmer will bring some needed changes, any new regime is going to run up against that philosophy as well and it will hold us back.
    #29
  30. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    Maybe. I agree that to this point Fry has not shown any real commitment to the betterment of athletics, however, I dont think that has to be the case or is actually the case. When he came, the school needed an overhaul to those lovely orange brick building everywhere and that was his focus. He wanted to remove the commuter school moniker and make it a school that drew from everywhere and where people stayed around campus, even on weekends. I am from afar now, but with all the new changes on campus I think he has done that very well, and of course expensively. There are only so many things on that front that can be done and they already have. So where does he turn to next? With the big fixes out of the way or underway, I honestly think that there is a chance that the next thing addressed could be athletics, since if memory serves me correctly, and I am too lazy to look it up, I think he had good success with enhancing athletics at his previous places. I could be wrong though and you could be 1000% correct that athletics are distantly in the back of his head and barely worth a thought.
    #30

Share This Page