JMU

Discussion in 'Drexel Dragons' started by dan10, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    So we have a game tonight against JMU. They are balanced and playing very well, especially on the road. I dont have any great insight but this game feels like it will be a lot like the first matchup which was never close. With how we have played I just dont see a scenario in which we win this one.

    JMU- 74
    DU- 52

    Vegas: JMU -6.5
    #1
  2. MetSox

    MetSox Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,496
    Likes Received:
    13
    Just put up the pregame. Is anyone not on the same page as Dan10?

    Link
    #2
  3. Dragon for life

    Dragon for life Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    3
    I disagree with the score... I actually think it will be a close game. I think it will be similar to the Hofstra game.
    #3
  4. DrachenFire

    DrachenFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    34
    The first meeting took place after the Towson away game, in which Bru described the team as being "out toughed" by the Tigers. Whether that critique fell on deaf ears or Harrisonburg failed to inspire their inner selves to rise up beyond what they are typically able to accomplish, the result was that the Dragons only attempted 5 shots around the rim and were out rebounded 44-20. Perhaps they were confused as to where the paint area of the court was due to the awfulness of the Convo Court or they just didn't even bother trying to impose any sort dominance down low.

    So, either they follow that same blueprint and get blown out of the DAC, or maybe they change things up a bit and actually make this a bit of a game. I keep waiting for their record to catch up with the guys and for the wheels to completely fall off. I give all of them along with the coaching staff credit that that hasn't happened yet.
    #4
  5. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    I am going with this one. Also surprised as well that we have stayed competitive despite our record. At least they have some ounce of pride.
    #5
  6. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    I have so many thoughts about last night's game however the ones that stand out in my mind were occurrences off the court, not on it.

    1. If I had to make a conservative estimate I would say that the crowd last night was 60% Drexel, 40% JMU. Our building was flooded by the opposing team's fans. The loudest cheers of the night seemed to be distractive ones when our own foul shooters were on the line. The home team fans started out jovial enough with Drexel's first three shots but they seemed to sputter out from there. The crowd seemed to have a defeated attitude.

    2. I am going to go out on a limb and say that there are problems on the Drexel bench. I am not going to mention names here on this blog and for those who are not specifically looking at it, they will probably miss it but there have been two players in particular, one for quite some time, and the second starting after an incident last night, who seem completely disinterested with what their coach has to say. Losing sucks. And this team's body language say that they hate losing, and I that is a good thing. You cannot become content with that. But in addition to the beating that they are taking on the court, the off the court beating continues to be relentless. That sort of "motivation" is not helping this team. The comments of "they have to make shots" or "they have to make plays" just seem to be on repeat now. In Nick Maloney's article at The Triangle today, he said "One thing is for sure: Drexel is clearly able to play with some of the CAA’s best. Now it’s up to Bruiser Flint to figure out a way to get his group to finish out a win." And he could not be more right.

    You can talk about the benefits of firing a coach during the off season vs. in season, but at this point I do not think that things can get much worse. The crowd is dwindling and disinterested. For as much money as Drexel is losing by firing Bru, they are also losing money with all of the empty seats. At this point, based on what I have seen on the sidelines, I would not be surprised if there were a few transfers coming this off season. I would bet money on one of them should Bruiser somehow keep his job, but there is at least one other that I could see happening regardless, because not only has the coach failed the team, but by continuing to allow the decay of this program so have Zilmer and President Fry.

    My point is this: if this administration wants to show the fans and the players that they mean business about fixing the men's basketball program, let's cut ties now. One fan pointed out last night while we were waiting for the elevator that

    This program was poised for greatness when the reins were handed over to Steve Seymour in 1999. Bill Herrion had built a dynasty in a conference that had been previously dominated by Northeastern. 5 regular season conference championships in 8 years, with 3 NCAA appearances. WOW. That is quite the accomplishment for a program the size of Drexel. Well, the program realized that they made a mistake with Seymour and they moved on, handing the reins to Flint.

    Bru has had some good years, no doubt, but he has never taken this program anywhere near where it has been and he has had 15 years to do so. What this was manifested itself to is something that I am comfortable describing as an embarrassment on the court. It is not the kid's fault. Mojica is one hell of a shooter. Abif is this team's MVP this year. Terrell Allen is a very talented freshman point guard. I might be very critical about Tavon Allen's basketball IQ but you will never find me saying that he does not give 110% on the court every single night. The problem is not the kids. The problem is the head coach, and the administration above him.

    Cut bait, hand the team over to Conners for the rest of the season (if he will stay) and let's show the fans and players that we mean business with what should be the flagship of our "Non-Football-Having" athletic department and let's start rebuilding now.
    #6
    Dragon for life likes this.
  7. Dragon for life

    Dragon for life Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yeah.... I was wrong... haha
    #7
  8. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    Well stated MedicSBK. I said some of that earlier in the season (about halfway through) when it was apparent something needed to be changed. I know many didnt approve of a mid season firing, but to me the wheels were already spinning and we needed change right then and there if we wanted to attempt to salvage the season during conference play. My thought then, which matches yours now, is let Connors run the ship for a chunk of the season and see what we've got. Do the players respond to a new voice? Does nothing change? It would have been worth seeing what the outcome would have been. It also would have shown what we have in the rest of the staff for potentially going forward. With only a few games remaining, to me, it is too late to see any impact of a change and we have what we have. Personally I dont think Connors in charge would have changed much of anything, due to being under Bruiser for too long, and I think if we move on from Bruiser, we need to start over and clean house.
    #8
  9. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    There are 8 games left this season counting Pillow Fight Friday. That's a quarter of the season. That is enough, if you ask me.

    Yes, they have been under Bruiser too long. I'm not saying that we would then miraculously win the conference tournament. What it does though, is it sends a message to current and prospective season ticket holders, as well as the 13 guys who take the court every night that this administration and this school is committed to improving the program.
    #9
  10. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    Totally agree on the message it would send. 8 games may be a quarter of the season, but when it is the last quarter it is hard to change your entire gameplan and practice new ideas and have them implemented. It is not easy to change how you play or the offense/defense you run overnight. Point being, by the time he could get changes through, there only may be 1 or 2 games left to see how those changes look
    #10
  11. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    Agreed, but that is not the point of this move. If there was an attempt to salvage the season then you would be right. A firing of Bruiser with 8 games left would help improve morale in the locker room, when someone above Bruiser walks in and says, "We want you to know that we are committed to you. You are our flagship."

    It might fill the silence of the crowd as they leave the DAC with talks of a step in the right direction.

    It might help the parents who sat in their seats after last night's game silently staring at the court by telling them that this program cares about their kids' development both on and off the court.

    Drexel will never be the school that is a pipeline to the NBA but if you look through the history of this school there have been a lot of players who have successfully taken their game over seas, so there is at least some value to what happens on the court.

    This team will not win the conference tournament. Hell, they probably wont even make it past Pillow Fight Friday. That does not mean that plans to rebuild this program cannot start now.
    #11
  12. DrachenFire

    DrachenFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    34
    The only way Bru leaves before the end of the season is if he flat out asks Zillmer or Fry if he's coming back next year, and then asks for it to just be done with now if they answer no. When/if the change is made at the end of the year, I want a complete change in direction - no current/former coaches or players, a fresh new voice and perspective. So let Bru finish out the year, this may not be popular, but he is the all time winning coach and has had enough memorable moments to not be canned with 8 games left. Doing it now isn't going to prove anything to me or other potential season ticket holders; seeing who comes in to replace him and the imparting of a plan to get things back on track by the new coach and existing administration would.

    I have no doubt that there will be transfers. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised one didn't pop up between terms and that leaves me a little more optimistic that it would happen should a change be made.
    #12
  13. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    Would it though? As Drachen said, he has accomplished plenty of things while here, even if NCAA tournament or Conference champion isn't one of them. What message would it send to the players or future players if a loyal coach would be canned with only 8 games remaining. Is that a program many would have faith in going forward, even if there is a quick gain in morale?

    I am with Drachen on this one. I think at this point there is very little to be truly gained until the end of the year. If the administration was going to make a move they would have done it sometime during the middle of the season. They didn't. I don't see why they would now and I don't agree it would send the right message about the program. I also think everything needs to wiped clean and started all over from the personnel side of things.
    #13
  14. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    "What message would it send to the players or future players if a loyal coach would be canned with only 8 games remaining. Is that a program many would have faith in going forward, even if there is a quick gain in morale? "

    And there is the rub. From the player's perspective the fuse is running short on the "respect" meter. Some players were absent in last night's game, and I don't mean physically. Body language, eye contact, and interaction with other players on the bench is very telling.
    #14
  15. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    How much of that is getting tired of the coach versus the season as a whole wearing on them? The answer IMO is a mix of both.
    #15
  16. MedicSBK

    MedicSBK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    22
    I'm going to try and resist to flog this dead horse, which is going to be difficult because I feel like I am making a case for something that many of us have decided should already happen but I wanted to point out a couple of numbers. And I preface this with the usual "no offense to anyone who has previously commented here or in any other thread"

    I did some searching on College Reference through coaching records for coaches that had been at their programs since 2002. There were a couple of coaches that must have been "associate" heads or on staff for a considerable amount of time and not in a head coaching role, but I was able to find a total of 24 coaches still with the teams that they coached for in the 2001-2002 season when Bruiser took over at Drexel. Here are some facts that I found:

    1. For Winning Percentage Bruiser is 18th out of 24 at .534.
    2. Out of the 24 coaches there are two who have never made it to the NCAA's. One, obviously, is Bruiser. The other is James Jones from Yale. Jones has had 2 20 game winning seasons since taking over at Yale and posts a 244-237 record in his career. Ironically, his team is currently in a tie first place in the Ivy League which, as we all know, has an automatic bid for the conference winner.
    3. The next lowest number of NCAA appearances is 3, held by 7 different coaches from a variety of schools all mid majors.
    4. Out of these 24 coaches, 8 of them coach at programs that do not have football teams. (Side note: While researching I discovered the UC Santa Barbara women's volleyball team. If that's not the #1 sport at that college I dont know why not)
    5. Since 2002, of programs with coaches around as long as Bruiser who do not have football programs, Drexel has the lowest winning percentage. When taking this year out of the equation the only team they move "past" is Oakland University.
    6. Bruiser is tied for the second least number of 20 win seasons with 3, and he has the 5th worst percentage of 20 win seasons.

    I guess ultimately my point is I have never seen Bruiser as a successful coach. He had two really good seasons out of 15 but when looking at multiple ways of measuring success (NBA Players = 0, NCAA Births = 0, NIT Final Fours = 0, CAA Championships = 1, Winning % = .534) I can't find anything that makes him stand out to me as something that has happened on the court that he can hang his hat on as a coach other than "I lasted 15 seasons at this school."
    #16
  17. dan10

    dan10 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    13
    As you said, I dont think you will have anyone disagree with you. I forget who pulled numbers up in the past on this and Bruiser was no doubt nearly in a league of his own or along side of James Jones at Yale. He is and has been a great recruiter and below average coach. That generally means you will put together some good squads and compete but may not have enough to get over the hump. His teams fit that bill very well, minus the past 3 seasons which were all lost and they were not really competitive. Again it is all about how you define success and everyone is on board with he has been successful, but not where it matters the most.

    His best team deserved an NCAA bid and were left out ('11-'12 not '06'07). That team then shined in the NIT before their epic choke job keeping them making it is MSG. Again close but no cigar. Gotta be able to finish out games where you are up 16 with 15 to go at home.

    As far as NBA players he does not have any but he has had several invited to summer camps for teams, ultimately never signed contracts and went overseas. So he has certainly been close to having a couple NBA'ers. Chance are Damion Lee will make it there which as someone who graduated from Drexel will count towards Bruiser, even if he lists Louisville as his school in the draft and truly got drafted because of going to the high visibility school of Louisville. A bunch of his players are still player overseas and having success.
    #17
  18. DrachenFire

    DrachenFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    34
    Look, people have been after Bru for going on close to a decade now. I think we need to step back a bit and realize that Malik is probably a once in a lifetime type player and was the main reason Drexel had the success it did in the mid-90s. The fact is that only two coaches have won post-season games in Drexel history, and Bru is one and has two. I know that it came in the “wrong” one, but that counts for something. For the 11 years where the CAA was whole, Drexel had the 4th most conference wins behind only VCU, ODU and GMU in a much tougher conference than the AE; I think that should count for something too. Bru was successful in building up Drexel to compete in a tough mid-major conference where we were charged to fight with at least one hand tied behind our backs. I will not argue that some of his strategies and philosophies have been detrimental to achieving the goal of winning the CAA and dancing and he’s probably been given one extension too long, but consider the following:

    I know the timeline of Brus’ extensions have been a topic of debate between me and a couple of you. I’ve claimed that he coached a lame duck year in 11-12 and based that off of what MetSox posted going into that season:

    http://www.caazone.com/boards/threads/dragon-economics.112838/

    So, going into the 10-11 season we had a new president and then The Incident. That would have seemed to be an opportunity to have made a change. It would have meant buying out 2 years of his contract and he had run a clean program up to that point, and changing coaches in July almost always isn’t going to end well. There were talks of if going into a season would force him to change things up (look at a lot of the same arguments)

    http://www.caazone.com/boards/threads/the-harris-phillip-effect-on-brus-performance.95822/

    That team, of course went on to win 21 games, win at Louisville and featured The Screw Job down in Richmond. Obviously a 20 win season with the team that was coming back was not the time to disrupt the program by making a coaching change. Enter The Year of the Dragon – Drexel goes 25-5 during the season, 16-2 in the CAA winning the regular season crown and wins 19 games in a row. I so wish we had Derrick Thomas available for the CAAT to see what would have changed.

    How do you not offer an extension to a coach that wins 50 games in 2 years and the 2nd and 3rd postseason victories in program history? It was a perfect storm that got us here. I honestly don't know what could have been done differently. The biggest eff up following 11-12 was the abandonment of the bigs. Even with the injuries, there still should have been enough talent to make runs in a weakened CAA. Now that we are using the bigs again, there isn't enough talent to compete in a retooled league. Just a colossal waste of opportunity that is going to set the program back years.
    #18

Share This Page